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 Alternate History versus 'Reality'

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SuperHeroFan



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PostSubject: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:20 pm

I was reading in another forum, I can't remember the name, in which someone was talking about setting their chars in an altered history, or what-if scenario universe. How many of us out here in PD OS Land are doing that (Using original 'verse) or our own 'reality'?

Of these alternate histories, which if any, would you use as a setting?



South won Civil War
JFK never shot, and we continue Apollo missions - have functioning base on the Moon in 1989.
Alien life is found and it goes well - we receive advanced tech and medicine...what happens next?
Same as above, but they want to erase our existence. Fight for freedom, so what's it like to live in that alternate history?
Nazis develop A-Bomb, war continues Hitler's way, finds conclusive proof of extraterrestrial life, and tech.
Mars is habitable, they send their red humanoid representative (think John Carter of Mars)
Soviets win 'Space Race'
Axis invade USA
Martians actually land in 1938 (Orson Welles' broadcast to coverup the real incident), and again 1953 and leave Earth as they did at the end of the HG Wells' book and the movie in 1953. What would happen to us?

Just a few choices, any sound interesting? How would our characters fit into these worlds? If they remembered the 'original timeline' would they attempt to correct it, as in the Back to the Future movies or just accept the change and move forward?

I think I'd like to try the post martian invasion scenario at some point.

Here's another question..of all the countless things, places, beings we've seen in sci-fi since it began, what's the three things, or the three beings you wish existed?

Ex. I wish time travel as an observer were real technology, I'd like to take the Super Soldier serum as in the Captain America movie, and I would have loved that hoverboard from back to the future 2 when I was a kid.









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CodeAndReload

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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:09 am

A reality in which Dewey defeated Truman.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:26 am

@Code,

What about Dewey defeating Truman? My question is, what had to have changed in the USA and possibly, overseas to help Dewey become Pres., and what does he do Truman wouldn't, and in what/if any way are they similar?

You didn't like any of the other scenarios, or questions? (I was trying to ask something to start a conversation, as it seems like a ghost town here Sad



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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sat May 18, 2013 5:43 am

You've got some interesting ideas, SHF. As much as I've enjoyed reading such alternate histories, I don't know that I'd ever write one. If I did, it would only be as part of an ongoing series, one story within a series of stories. I like to think long-term with characters I deal with, and at least have the option of continuing their adventures indefinitely. But (to use a common example) if our heroes form a resistance against the Nazi overlords who conquered the world in the 1930s, then either our heroes are incompetent and constantly get beaten the Nazis (depressing) or they ultimately win free the US and its allies from Nazi control (ending the series).

An interesting (if somewhat paranoid) possibility might be if the world outside you window still LOOKED the same, but wasn't. Like, maybe the Roswell crash WAS an alien spaceship and ancient aliens were responsible for all Earth's unexplained mysteries. The average person is clueless to this, but the heroes have to deal with the fallout without the general public finding out (along the lines of MIB, I guess, but with masks and less goofy humor).

As for your question, that's tough. Off the top of my head, a Legion flight ring, either Knight Rider's KITT or Speed Racer's Mach 5, and a phaser from Star Trek.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Tue May 28, 2013 2:10 am

Ah, GB..you had a couple of my choices as well. But in addition to the Legion flight ring, I'd consider a GL ring as well. Which KITT did you prefer, the classic or the newer Mustang? (I'd still love to have the classic KITT in my driveway.)

I think in my top 5 items I'd like to have are:

1. Legion or GL ring
2. Sonic screwdriver
3. Super soldier serum
4. original BSG Viper
5. Legion time bubble, or ability to travel in time like Project: Quantum Leap

I like your Roswell idea, like MiB with capes. Lately I've been reading and watching a lot of WWII themed shows and was thinking if I were to do an alternate history, I'd try to set it in the 40's/50's with the limited tech to make it more interesting (for me). I feel that today's heroes can whip up an answer to any problem with technobabble and a one-off item.

Anyone feel that today's heroes are too quick to solve whatever problem they have?
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Tue May 28, 2013 8:33 am

Ah, yes, the sonic screwdriver; how could I forget a tool that seems to pretty much be able to do anything? I like GL, but for some reason I don't see myself ever having or wanting one of the rings ... don't ask me why. And as much as I enjoyed the newer version of Knight Rider (I even got a kick out of Team Knight Rider when that on the air), the classic KITT is the one that rocks the most and the one that I want!

Thinking about the "behind the scenes" thing I mentioned, I recalled Marvel's Barker-verse (concepts by Clive Barker). One of the book dealt with the idea that WWII was actually a war against aliens (or between aliens fighting over Earth; I can't remember which) and humanity was basically hypnotized/brain washed into accepting the idea that Germany suddenly became a world power that threatened all freedom. I found it kind of an interesting twist.

I don't know that I'd say that today's heroes have it any easier, because the villains have access to the same technology. I remember a TV movie a while back where Dr. Watson's great-granddaughter found Sherlock Holmes, who had put himself in suspended animation after being poisoned by one of Moriarty's men. He said that he assumed that better techniques of detecting and counteracting poisons would make poisoning almost unheard of. She explained that the techniques have improved, but so have types and methods of poisoning, to which he responded, "Of course, meaning no real advance for law enforcement."

On the other hand, I recall an article I read once where the author pointed out that the villains (especially in the old movie serials) always had better weapons and plans; the heroes always won due to "a combination of dumb luck and 3rd-grade science." I had to agree with the sentiments.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Fri May 31, 2013 12:38 am

SuperHeroFan wrote:
@Code,
What about Dewey defeating Truman? My question is, what had to have changed in the USA and possibly, overseas to help Dewey become Pres., and what does he do Truman wouldn't, and in what/if any way are they similar?

That is my favorite real-world example of what could have been, and the media recording an alternate possibility, even if it is only implied.

SuperHeroFan wrote:
Which KITT did you prefer, the classic or the newer Mustang? (I'd still love to have the classic KITT in my driveway.)

For me, I prefer the Two Thousand, here, mostly for nostalgia.

SuperHeroFan wrote:

ability to travel in time like Project: Quantum Leap

To fix what once went wrong or in general?



If we are doing conspiracies, how about a setting where rival media corporations are secretly in charge of politics. The news outlets invent news stories to push their agenda and as an accumulative effect, control politics.

For example, in the previous presidential election, the current president had the least amount of votes. The outlets make all the outraged Twitter posts of the majority whose candidate lost, seem like isolated events, even though they are the majority.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Fri May 31, 2013 12:49 pm

CodeAndReload wrote:

For example, in the previous presidential election, the current president had the least amount of votes. The outlets make all the outraged Twitter posts of the majority whose candidate lost, seem like isolated events, even though they are the majority.

Hehe...sometimes, that almost feels like our reality, with a media that seems determined to tell us what our opinion is (or is supposed to be) and ignoring or marginalizing opposing views. But you're talking about a universe where it's been pushed to a radical extreme...where they are not just trying to subtly influence public opinion, but outright control the world, by broadcasting blatant and unequivocal lies. I actually wrote a screenplay of a world like that. Where corporations completely rewrote history.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Fri May 31, 2013 2:55 pm

I kinda got the idea from the Continuum pilot, where in the future, the Government is formed from Corporations who serve there own needs, not the public good.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:14 am

[quote="CodeAndReload"]
SuperHeroFan wrote:
@Code,


SuperHeroFan wrote:
Which KITT did you prefer, the classic or the newer Mustang? (I'd still love to have the classic KITT in my driveway.)

For me, I prefer the Two Thousand, here, mostly for nostalgia.

I've noticed that the replies seem to favor the classic KITT..I wonder if it is the voice of KITT, which I didn't think Val Kilmer couldn't touch, so to speak, or is that the 'new' KITT is too 'tricked out' in that it can change into other vehicles, or just had a lame, Michael Knight wannabe?

SuperHeroFan wrote:

ability to travel in time like Project: Quantum Leap

To fix what once went wrong or in general?

Ooh, very hard decision. One little change can multiply into hundreds.

(I always wanted to see Sam leap into himself before the first unscheduled leap, so he and Al would debate whether or not leaping prematurely without the retrieval problem was really a good idea, or if they could have convinced the Senate Committee that was funding them to not pull their funding another way then leaping.)

Oh, another question for anyone - If you had a choice, would you rather leap through time or slide through a wormhole to parallel Earths? AND, if you landed on an Earth that was preferable to your Earth, meaning the other you had everything you had wanted for yourself -would you stay, or try to find your own Earth?


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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:42 pm

I'm inclined to say the three-thousand is too tricked out; I do like the satellite uplink and armor, though.

I'd be inclined to stay in the perfect reality, unless I was genre-savvy enough not to. Usually there is a catch.

Is what Alexander Luthor was trying to do just? Was it okay to attempt to destroy the Multiverse, to make a utopia universe?
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:24 am

I think in A. Luthor's mind, he thought it was perfectly logical to do what he did, as Superboy Prime probably thought the same thing until the Flashes pulled him into the Speed Force. Granted he seemed to go loony tunes after a while, but he did seem to think that his actions would set everything 'right', at least as he saw it.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:52 am

You can probably say the same about Sinestro in Flashpoint too, then. The means justify the ends because the people you hurt and the deeds you did never exist/happened.

I think writers are at a disadvantage when it comes to Sliding into a near-perfect world.

Either the characters should be genre-savvy enough to know things aren't always what they seem (which becomes boring if you do it to often) or they look silly for accepting things at face-value. This is especially true when the reader is genre-savvy enough to realize this.

What I think is more interesting, is when parallel worlds and alternate timelines are indistinguishable from eachother. The JL/JLU cartoon tried to do that with the Justice Lords plotline.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:53 am

CodeAndReload wrote:
Is what Alexander Luthor was trying to do just? Was it okay to attempt to destroy the Multiverse, to make a utopia universe?

The interesting thing with multiple worlds/alternate histories is that everything could be seen from either side. Remember the "Evil Leaper" in Quantum Leap? She was just like Sam, but from a different future. Just as Sam was trying to correct what went historically wrong from his reality's point of view, she was trying to UNDO his work to correct what was historically wrong from her reality's point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:45 pm

GB,

Funny that you mention the Evil Leaper, I was wondering if they ever explained what or if Sam, and Project Quantum Leap did that led to the future of Lothos running things? The only real alternate 'reality' I remember was in 'A Leap for Lisa' where Sam leaped into Al as a young ensign wanted for the murder of his Commander's wife where Sam changed things just enough to have a new observer for a bit named Sinjin.

I didn't understand how the events that Sam and co. changed could lead to the future of Lothos. Sam was basically as much of a 'boy scout' as Superman, wanting good things to happen for everyone he came into contact with.

(QL is one show that needs a new movie or a continuation IMO)

Doctor Who has also meddled (or stopped meddling) in history all throughout the shows run, it was in "Turn Left" where we got the alternate history of "What if the Doctor was not there to defend the Earth?" Needless to say, it was pretty ugly.

I guess I'm just curious as to why comic publishers haven't taken advantage of this. (Marvel's 'What If?' was a great look at alternate history relating to the Marvel 'verse. DC had the 'Elseworlds' books, but nothing on a regular basis that I'm aware of.)

Code, I agree with you that AH's work best where things are pretty close to the 'prime' history. Just one or two things change that lead to people trying to take advantage of what's changed, in order to turn things to their liking.
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:30 am

As far as the Evil Leaper goes, she didn't want to commit those acts, her hologram and Lothos are the ones that drove her down that path. She was more trapped than trying to commit acts for her own gain, on a grand scale.

Quote :
I was wondering if they ever explained what or if Sam, and Project Quantum Leap did that led to the future of Lothos running things?

It doesn't have to be from a future that Sam corrected/left uncorrected; it seems that all future timelines converge in the past. Although the religious tones don't help with trying to figure out how time travel works in the show (God or Time or whatever).

I think Al's decision to try to repair his relationship with his first wife is a better analogy for the Luthor's moral dilemma, at least in terms of not running the scenario through Ziggy.

None of the publishers rarely, if ever, seem to mention a super-structure for all the realities. Where Multiverse are a collection of single universes, what is a collection of Multiverses (an Omniverse?).

Access from DCvsMarvel can presumable move between the two prime universes in the Omniverse, I assume that he can move to parallel Marvel Universes and the 52 DCU Universes and timelines. Can you punch someone so hard to push them out of the Multiverse and into another Multiverse or the space between Multiverses?

I assume that Marvel will have some super-structure with Marvel having Gaiman's Angela.

Quote :

I guess I'm just curious as to why comic publishers haven't taken advantage of this. (Marvel's 'What If?' was a great look at alternate history relating to the Marvel 'verse. DC had the 'Elseworlds' books, but nothing on a regular basis that I'm aware of.)

They are, we currently have:

Infinite Crisis MOBA game
Earth 2 books (Huntress/Power Girl)
Morrison's Multiversity
Marvel's newly shattered timeline(s)

I would like to see an Elseworld's ongoing set in the 52 and beyond (hopefully with some animated stories and DC Nation thrown in, if only for GLTAS:Steam Lantern and Batman of Shanghai).

If they do the meta-fiction as parallel world's reality, in Multiversity, I hope that the Earth Prime/Legion of Three Worlds Universe at least ties into it.

Also with IDW working with DC/WB more closely, it be nice if they can talk the BBC into allowing a Time Trapper/Who crossover; he'd make a better Who villain than a Legion/Superman one.
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PostSubject: Alternate universes...   Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:31 am



Just curious about DC's new 52... I haven't really checked

any of it out but is it a new timeline or a hybrid timeline with

the old stuff or not really either? Maybe this is too big of

a question to get a simple answer...
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:19 am

It's a new timeline where some elements are the same but others are vastly different. For instance the Batman books & Green Lantern books seem to be pretty much the same as before (except for Barbara Gordon being back as Batgirl). The Superman books (unfortunately) they threw out everything and basically started from scratch (and not for the better, IMHO).
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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:06 am




So the books that were selling well they didn't change much

but other titles got a complete reboot in the hopes of hooking

a new audience?

I am kinda glad that Barbara Gordon is Batgirl again. I thought

it was sad when they put her in a wheel chair. It made for a lot

of cool storylines but I liked her as Batgirl.

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PostSubject: Re: Alternate History versus 'Reality'   Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:32 am

Lantern Jaw wrote:


I am kinda glad that Barbara Gordon is Batgirl again.  I thought

it was sad when they put her in a wheel chair.  It made for a lot

of cool storylines but I liked her as Batgirl.


I liked her as BG too, I wasn't really a fan of Cassandra taking the ID. Strangely, as much as I liked BG, I did like Barbara when she was the ubertech Oracle that could still kick *** while sitting down.
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