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 Open source Super archetype

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Ultimosteve



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PostSubject: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:41 am

ok, I just wanted to start his thread. I'll be back to add more of my thoughts on the topic
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PhantomofDoom

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:42 am

Are you wanting to create a collaborative PD open source character or do you already have one in mind? Maybe I can help illustrate it if you do?
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Ultimosteve



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:51 am

Yes, this is my official fallow to the idea I brought up in another thread. I thought it would be interesting to create an all purpose Superman-type analog. Everyone is free to throw in idea's. I thought that Will Eisner's Wonder Comics #1 could be part of his unofficial continuity. The name as to go but you can use that as a starting but don;t feel constricted to that.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:18 am

How does everyone feel about the name The Centurion. Hey, sounds a bit to roman for a character not rooted myth but I'm throwing out idea's.

Now, I know that everyone has there own personal preference on what is the definitive Superman. I still have a lot of love for his early characterization of a tough guy social activist. He doesn't seem afraid of bending the laws when looking out for the under dog. This really seemed to reflected the times the Joe & Jerry wrote the character but could still be very relevant today. In alot of ways that how mythic characters like Hercules and the other titans where protrade.
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Yzz

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:06 pm

Quote :
How does everyone feel about the name The Centurion.
That's a good one.
Quote :
Hey, sounds a bit to roman for a character not rooted myth but I'm throwing out idea's.
In the same vein, you could use:
Paladin
Knight
Guardian
Defender
Sentinel
Titan
Witness

~~Yzz
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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:35 pm

Hmm....okay first, I think you need a name that isn't already trademarked, because that gives him greater utility. Sentinel is a name already used by several characters. Paladin is a Marvel character. Defender is a character in the Hero System RPG. Titan sounds like someone that can grow. Witness makes me think of Amish people.

Despite its connotations, I think Centurion isn't too bad, but I'd be kinda shocked if it wasn't trademarked. My personal favorite, is "The Knight." It has similar connotations as a reference to a historical warrior class, but I like that it suggests someone who is hard to hurt and lives by a code of honor.

I think the thing that really fascinates people about Superman, is that he inspires people to overcome any problem, and stay true to their values. A hero is only as good as his villains, and Superman's enemies and the battles he fights are as overwhelming as any writer could imagine. Yet someone, despite the unimaginable odds, superman always manages to survive and come out on top. Additionally, he represents our most ideal values and their strength to endure, even in our darkest hours. His powers and all that are just set dressing for him as a symbol of indestructible hope, and the locomotive-like power of our convictions.
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Yzz

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:05 am

argosail wrote:
Despite its connotations, I think Centurion isn't too bad, but I'd be kinda shocked if it wasn't trademarked.
DC used Alpha Centurion (Roman granted power through alien tech) and Green Ronin used Centurion in Mutants & Masterminds (but he was actually Roman and looked it).

Another name to consider might be Paragon.

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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:04 am

I really like the name Paragon. In fact, I think that's perfect! There are Marvel heroes by that name and a DC villain, but all of them are obscure and considerably different than a Superman type character. Paragon reflects the character as a sybol or "model" of something greater, both physically and spiritually. I would use Paragon, but I think Knight or Centurion are viable as well.

Now here's the question....how different do you want to make the character's abilities? There are a number of Superman clones that have almost identical abilities.

MARVEL
Sentry - has a few additional abilities
Hyperion - exactly as Superman
Gladiator - no x-ray vision or super-speed (except in flight)

IMAGE
Supreme - exactly the same as superman, except he has a bad attitude
Mister Majestic - I believe he has a few additional abilities

There's also Prime and Mighty Man, who are cloned off of Captain Marvel (Shazam), who has very similar abilities to Superman as well.


Last edited by argosail on Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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bchat



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:09 pm

Regarding "Paragon" as a name, AC Comics has "Captain Paragon" of The Sentinels of Justice, although I'm not sure how often the character gets used.

A good place to check-out characters/names is http://comicbookdb.com. Unlike the GCD at comics.org, the search results link to pages dedicated to the specific character(s) you're searching for and not just a list of books where a character with that name (or just a part of the name) appears. Comicbookdb.com is pretty handy when checking to see what names have been used.

The Samaritan from Astro City is also very Superman-like.

Honestly, I think coming-up with a name should be secondary to hammering-out the elements of the character (origin, abilities, physcial appearance, etc). If you're thinking of using a relatively generic name like Centurion, Paragon, Guardian and the like, what happens when Marvel, Image, DC or anyone else comes along and Trademarks the name for their own character? I suggest making the name a little more unique, which can be done by adding the equally generic "Captain", "General", "Mister", etc, prefixes, or possibly a "Man" suffix ... as in "Paragon Man" (which sounds lame, I know). If you guys don't mind a suggestion, I'ld go with "Guardian Knight", as it implies a protector (Guardian) with a high moral standard (Knight), and it doesn't sound too bad to my ears.
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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:08 am

Unfortunately, one small inherant problem with Open Source characters, is that someone could eventually trademark their name. Although nobody could ever claim sole ownership of the Jenny Everywhere character, I do believe that the name could legally be trademarked by you, me, Marvel, DC or anyone trying to sell Jenny Everywhere merchandise. It would probably be challenged, but the bottom line is, even a unique name may not be sufficient protection to prevent trademarking. That said, I don't think using a trademarked name would be the worst thing in the world, as long as the name of the character isn't used by a very similar character, in which case, you could be sued for copyright infringement. We already know that both Marvel and DC have characters named Paragon and they aren't suing each other over it, so there's room for a third Paragon character. However, it would be nice to have a character with a unique name, just so he is easily identified. That is why I'm okay with the name Paragon...because the Marvel and DC characters are pretty obscure. However, I think the character Paladin is better know, so giving our Superman the same name would immediately create confusion with that character. I am all for using a more complex name. Guardian Knight isn't bad. The only variation of Paragon that sounds good to me is Mr. Paragon. Or maybe use a color like "Green Paragon" (though that sounds like an environmental hero). Hm...how about a color variation of Guardian, like "Blue Guardian"?

I think the name is an improtant first step, because my assumption is that the character will largely be a rip-off of superman in terms of powers and personality, much like the characters listed above. But I do think it's important to consider what kinds of variations to consider. Can anyone think of a cool new power for the character? Anyone want to work on a costume design. If were ding a Superman arch type, he must have a cape.
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PostSubject: design and power   Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:32 pm

I will be working on a design for this open source "generic" Superman character.

Are there going to be any plans to use this character, when and if named, anywhere by anybody?

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:34 pm

The community is currently so small here, that we're only seeing a handful of creators who might actually use the character. Perhaps when the community has grown a bit, our Superman will see more use.

I'll make you a deal phantom. If you do a page of sequential art, using this character in a story, I'll do the second page and put up a profile with original art on The Free Universe. Maybe someone else will volunteer for a third page.

Anyone want to volunteer to write a simple story that can be done is a page or two? Maybe stopping a comet or sharks with lasers on their freaking heads? Ultimo? Yzz?
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:39 pm

Cool, Argosail, I think that would be fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:04 am

Quote :
But I do think it's important to consider what kinds of variations to consider. Can anyone think of a cool new power for the character?
Minor telepathy? Telekinesis? Ferrokinesis/magnetism? Energy constructs? Invisibility/blending?
On another note, when I was contemplating a pastiche of Supes, I considered that all "Kryptonians" are superpowered, but elements in the still-existant "Krypton's" soil nullify the powers. Don't know if anyone can use that.
Quote :
Anyone want to volunteer to write a simple story that can be done is a page or two? Maybe stopping a comet or sharks with lasers on their freaking heads? Ultimo? Yzz?

Do you mean a comic script or a text story? A text story I can definitely do. A comic script would be more difficult.

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Ultimosteve



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:43 am

Yeah I'm totally interested in helping with this. How quickly does the script need to be turned around? I'm really bogged down with work, school, and my forth coming wedding. With that said it sounds like fun so I'll try to fit it into my busy life.

I haven't written a comic script before. Would a screen play style script be ok? I'll leave room for artistic flexibility.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:50 am

Congrats on your upcoming nuptials Steve. I don't know how fast you need to do it...maybe just before Phantom gets bored of waiting.

I think screenplay format would probably be fine. Leave a lot of flexibility, because we may not be able to fit everything you ask for on one page. Think of this as two very brief, but connected, one page stories. Feel free to introduce a villain or a supporting character if you wish also.
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PostSubject: art and story   Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:46 am

Definitely want to add a congrats also to you Ultimosteve regarding your pending marriage. May you and yours be blessed together as God sees fit!

I think I can wait for any input regarding a story outline or scenario but for now I think I will just sketch two pages with panels.

Mind you, these will just be on either bristol sketch or cardstock paper for the time being. I have some ideas floating around.

Hope to get started on it sometime this week, will wait for any possible outlines to pop up here. If not, will just go ahead and draw something.

A man's wedding is far more important than goofing off here, so we understand!!! Smile

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bchat



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:33 am

Ultimosteve - Good luck with the wedding and, more importantly, the marriage ... hope everything goes smoothly for you.

So what, exactly, has been settled on for this character? Is the Fox Wonder Man still the basis for the character (radio engineer/inventor Fred Carson who gets "Herculean strength" from wearing a ring)? Has a name been settled on yet? If you guys don't mind, I'ld like to chip-in with some ideas/suggestions, but I would need a clearer picture of what has been decided on so far.

Regarding a "cool new power for the character", might I suggest some sort of telekenetic force field that would be used to shield innocent bystanders from explosions & energy blasts?
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PostSubject: Powers   Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:44 am

@bchat: The force field one is good. That is something I am DEFINITELY ALREADY adding to one of my own characters I recently created. I think it's important.

Regarding a Superman archetype character, you'd think there'd more comic book characters with that specific power but surprisingly there aren't as far as I'm aware. Could be wrong but I don't recall anyone like Samaritan, Supreme, or any others having it.

I don't think anyone has really specified his origins. There has primarily been talk about a name, but I don't think that's been quite settled yet.

Maybe a list of names should be posted and everyone who sees it should cast a vote?

Just to add I have completed one rough draft sketch last night, will work on more later today.

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:14 am

bchat, PLEASE contribute ideas. Any one of us could create the character, but I would like to make it collaborative, so that no one person can claim his creation. Everyone else, PLEASE tells us what you want this character to be.

What we've got:

-Phantom is doing his visual design.
-We've decided on Force Field generation as an additional ability.

What we need:

-A Name
-An Origin
-A secret identity (name, occupation, girlfriend)
-A weakness (his kryptonite)


My Suggestions
-If he uses the Force Field to protect others, it makes him vulnerable. One of Superman's weaknesses is that his friends are always vulnerable to attack, so there should be a trade off, so he can prove himself a true hero. This could count as his kryptonite.

Names: I suggest we vote on the following names (each of us should pick 3):

-Centurion
-The Knight
-Paragon
-Mr. Paragon
-Guardian Knight

I'll throw three new ones at you:

-Blue Guardian
-Astro-Man
-Steel Champion

(blue guardian invokes the image of Superman and an earth protector and might be the basis of an eco-hero theme)
(believe it or not, Astro-Man has never used for a superhero that I know of, and I was once going to use it as a generic Superman name)
(Steel Champion has never been used to my knowledge, but could be too blatant)

My votes are Astro-Man, Blue Guardian and Paragon
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:17 pm

Quote :
-A Name
I vote Paragon, Astro-man/Astro, or Blue Guardian.

Quote :
-An Origin
Here's one, I might do another one tommorow;
There exists a planet deep in space called Viro*. All its inhabitants are gifted with superpowers. But they do know this. Or at least they didn't. The chemical composition of Viro's soil somehow nullifies the inherent powers of Virans. Millenia ago, the Virans left their homeworld and forged a system-spanning empire. Their slave races eventually revolted. The sheer numbers of the freebeings overpowered the Viran forces. Now relegated to their homeworld, and constantly monitored by their slaves, the Virans forgot the past glory. But one intrepid scientist discovered the secrets of Viran genome. He sent via a small spacepod his son to a distant but similar planet, one where his powers would be fully manifested. Once there, using cutting-edge Viran technology, he would conquer the resident sentients and build an army to free Viro and restore the great, tyrannical, Viran empire. But the scientist's calculations were off. When the boy arrived on Earth, the badly-damged pod completely shut down. It was only due to the infant's powers that he had survived.

*A reference to the PD Wonder Boy.

Quote :
-A weakness (his kryptonite)
As mentioned above, Viran soil chemicals or an approximation thereof.
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PostSubject: Name, powers, and story   Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:53 pm

Well, I vote for two out of the list.

1. Astro-Man. --I AM surprised this name hasn't been used yet. That's interesting. Maybe it has but without the hyphen?

2. Steel Champion. I actually like Steel Champion, don't think it's too blatant, it's a good name.

I can't agree on any of the other names for a third choice. I want to suggest another name but will go with the ones suggested. Maybe I will settle on the third later.

I like the idea of him being susceptible while he uses the force field projection when trying to protect others.

@Yzz: I like the planet name of Viro. I am a bit shaky on the character being an alien sent to a similar planet, etc., it is a bit too much like Superman. Not trying to be too critical. Maybe that idea can be tweaked in some fashion? Hope you don't mind my input about it.

Honestly, I'd prefer the character to be an actual human from Earth. I want him to be like Superman in many ways, but I would prefer him to be human. That's the "problem" with Superman. A lot of readers dis him because he's way too powerful and not human enough, in many ways.

I DO have an idea and an outline but this is your idea and am just adding my two cents.

I will start a list of powers:

1. Super Strength. Able to lift in excess of 100 Tons but when lifting this excess weight, he can only do it for 12 hours continuously before he starts to weaken. I am talking lifting and flying with this amount of weight over and over repeatedly for 12 hours, not just a few minutes at a time. He has to re-charge via some type of source after the 12 hours.

2. Flight. Pretty much a given. How he flies, though, may have to do with his ability to use gravity. He uses ambient gravitational fields, which exist on Earth, from other planets, stars, etc. He does it to help him fly and this also enables his super strength.

3. Super-healing. I am talking millisecond fast healing speed.

4. Heightened speed, but NOT faster than the speed of light. No time travel. Hew can run and fly very, very fast. This is my input but if there is a bit of disagreement about it, I will forego the "no time travel" concept.

5. Force field projection. How far he can extend it will be open for debate. Like argosail said, when he uses it, he is vulnerable to some type of attacks. Not a lot, but some.

6. Invisibility. It would be cool if he could do this, even though some devices might be able to "see" him, but let's say he manages to warp all light and energy sources around him at will to make him invisible.

7. No need for oxygen, nitrogen, food, or water. His body can synthesize all types of energy, he basically "siphons" energies like the way he manipulates gravity.

These are just some ideas.

For the visual design I am NOT giving him trunks on the outside of his costume. However I am going for a somewhat Golden Age look to him. I doubt he'd need a mask, but do we want him to have one?





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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:10 pm

Personally, I'm keen on the name Blue Buffer, Blue Barrier or Scarlet Safeguard, as a bit of a throwback to cheesy heroes with strong imagery. Though of the names on the list, definitely Astro-Man. I think the majority of his abilities (if not all) should be derived from his force-fields. That is to say his super-strength, flight and durability should come from generation of force-fields that wrap around him tightly, and extend over objects he holds. Even if we don't want to go scientific in explanation at all, at least it provides an idea for how objects maintain their structural integrity when he's hefting them around. Super-speed could also be because of the fields if they are barriers of solid gravity or compressed time-space, which may in turn be why he calls himself Astro-Man. Hell, even that idea of invisibility could work if it's compressed space, since he could be bending the light around him with the fields, stealth camo style. I don't propose though that he be able to control the fields finely like Invisible Woman or Green Lantern. Just have basic settings: skintight (for basic powers, extends over objects when using superstrength), wall and bubble. Make one of his best assets how he utilises the powers he has for a given situation.

This in turn could lead to another weakness of perhaps only being able to use the fields for a limited number of things at a time, which could extend to his weakness of becoming vulnerable when protecting others. What I mean is that perhaps his fields could be used for flight and super-speed, causing his durability and strength to suffer whilst doing so, but by exchanging which area he's maximising with his spacefields he ca sort of adapt. Superstrong and superfast with lowered durability? Superdurable and very fast with no flight and lowered strength? This then becomes a lot more about how the hero uses his powers, rather than just having them all on hand at once. If you want him to be the classic Silver-Age invulnerable Superman with nothing to fear, just twist it so that due to extensive experience or increasing power he can maximise all traits at once, as suits the story. That also makes for a good MacGuffin item, a powerup which rather than increasing his powers' limits merely lets him use them all at once to overwhelm enemies, if your plot calls for it.

As for the concepts of super-stamina (not needing to eat/breathe/sleep/whatever) and of super-healing, I think either one is good, but having both just potentially puts him into the category of being able to soak everything and continue on unabated. Personally I'm more for the super-stamina side of things, and even that could be put down to his spacefields, if it's handwaved that he himself is actually frozen in a single moment of spacetime that he manipulates with his powers so he can completely suspend biological functions.

Personally, I think a human who perhaps was working on Unified Field Theory, or may have been a participant of the Philadelphia Experiment, could be perfect for such a hero.

For the logo, perhaps something like the classic Leonardo Da Vinci Anatomy of Man image, a spreadeagled figure surrounded by a bubble/ring of vibrant energy.
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PostSubject: Powers   Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:28 pm

@Vagrant: I like the basic pseudo-science aspect of what you're saying, it uses a bit of what I said and adds some more.

Where the force field emanates from, I guess we don't have to be specific, make it an "ambient cosmic source" like Marvel does with a number of their characters, or from an "unnamed dimension".

A lot of what you said I like and I really like the origin concepts. Far more "down to Earth" yet it is also a bit scientific and fantastical. A lot of what you wrote really keys in with the Astro portion of his name if it's going to be Astro-Man.

Regarding names, I am staying away from anything with color for the description, actual name, etc. Reason being if I am going to draw any of this, I will be doing it primarily in black and white. Even if we all agree on the character and Free Universe comic which we will work on and show here is in black and white, it will be disappointing to new site readers to read a name with a color in the name and then discover the character art is all black and white.

Not being an ***, I love the name of Scarlet Safeguard, that's real good, but for reasons I just explained, I want to stray away from colors in the description.

Perhaps we can outline something a bit simpler in terms of explanations for his powers and origins. Your ideas are good, but I think a clear and concise description of everything is in order not just for us but for any potential new users on the site. The same concept is applied with many comics.

Just a fun challenge to integrate the Golden Age concepts with the character! I look forward to more replies in this discussion.




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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:50 pm

Well, it seems the name Astro-Man is pretty popular, so I'd say we go with it. That gives us a little bit to build off. It looks like Astroman is the name of a rock band, but there would be no brand confusion with a comic book superhero, thus, there really isn't any trademark problem.

I like the powers suggested by Phantom and the power structure elaborated by Vagrant. I agree that it makes sense for him to be sustained by energy absorption, but not necessarily healed by it. Super-healing has always struck me as a little too convenient in story telling. Also, I'm not sure about invisibility. My problem with invisibility, is why would the character ever become visible in battle? And an action sequence with an invisible character is kinda dull. I'd rather see our hero in vibrant full-color action. In comics, the Invisible Woman character is almost always invisible, which is realistic, but a little dull looking. Martian Manhunter is almost always visible, but it doesn't really make sense why. So maybe our hero is only invisible when he's moving at super speed? Just a suggestion.

I like the idea of the hero having to decide how to allocate his energies into different abilities, but as a Superman stand-in, his power levels should be very high. Definitely no time travel though...that's a whole different can of worms in terms of story telling.

I like Yzz's writing. He's very creative, and I like his origin. If we are going with "Astro-Man" I think it would make sense for the character to originate from the cosmos. Maybe we can just put a little twist on Yzz's origin to separate it from the superman a little more.
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