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 Open source Super archetype

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Yzz

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:29 am



Excellent write-up, man!

~~Yzz
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bchat



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:55 am

Nicely done, argosail! There's certainly enough information there so that anyone using the character can "hit the ground running".
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:29 pm

Quite an extensive bio and should give anyone plenty of background if they want to go that route.

My question is the obvious: Will Astro-Man be submitted to the PDSH Wiki anytime soon?
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Yzz

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:20 am

PhantomofDoom wrote:
Quite an extensive bio and should give anyone plenty of background if they want to go that route.

My question is the obvious: Will Astro-Man be submitted to the PDSH Wiki anytime soon?

My understanding is that we just need personality elements and he's done.

~~Yzz
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Ultimosteve



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PostSubject: WOW!   Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:10 am

After reading this thread I feel like a sperm donor meeting his adult "son" for the first time. Man, I wish I could have been able contribute more to his creation but I'm proud at seeing what he grew into. I started this thread because I was writing a short one act script for my TV directing class and needed a superman analog. I only had plans to use him for a one time use in a kind of high concept superhero deconstruction story.

I got the idea for the whole idea for the open source super archetype because a writing parter of mine of mine came to me with cool idea for a completely different whole superhero tribute/satire revolving around the all powerful superhero type. It seemed kinda silly to created another Superman clone when there is already so many running through the funny papers.... But creators really don't much choice do they because even the clone are copy written. So the next best thing would be to created the clone that everyone could use.

Well I can't say that I created AstroMan but I'm proud to say that I played a part. With the exception of Dann all the artist renders give him a much more youthful appearance than I would have liked. I would kind of lean towards a more square jaw and lose the the mask.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate the look but it makes him look to much like a teen hero. What if we have two versions. The masked version could be AstroMan when he was younger. Perhaps going by the name AstroLad. When he gets older he acquires ability to use hypnosis. He uses that to conceal his identity and would no long need the mask. Maybe thats to corny and silver age but I'm just throwing out ideas.
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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:07 am

Welcome back Steve. I'm kinda getting used to the way Astro-Man is rendered, but the great thing about him being open source is that there can be a million and one variations, just like Supes himself has. From Yzz's green and red Astro-Man to your older, harder, square jawed version.

While you're here, please notice that Astro's true identity is "Steve." If you'd like to tell us the first name of your fiance, that will be the name of Astro's girlfriend.

I also want to let everyone know that I drew concept drawings of Kalthar and Talib. I also have done a drawing of Astro which will be PD, and the beginnings of a 1 page comic, crossing over with Outworlder (this one assumes they've already met, so Mike can tell that story). I will post all of this as soon as I get a chance to clean it up and color it...probably this weekend coming up.

Steve, any possibility we'll be seeing a live-action Astro-Man?


Last edited by argosail on Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ultimosteve



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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:39 am

Thats pretty awsome. Her name is Sharon. Yep, Its the Steve & Sharon Whisler family (well the family is coming later.) that already sounds comic booky. I guess this makes me immortal now.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:46 am

oh yes a live action AstroMan is in the work. It will a duolog driven short scene. It short live to tape with three camera's. I not going to give to much away yet but I think its a neat little twist on the superhero myth.
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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:06 pm

Steve, if you get a tape of your scene, I think we'd all really get a kick out of it, if you'd upload to YouTube and share a link here. That would be awesome. If someone plays Astro-Man directly, you gotta convince them to wear purple and gold that day....maybe a Lakers t-shirt.
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dann

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:17 pm

Hey guys...I don't have a problem at all doing an Astro-Man pic....I'll get one up tonight!

dann
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dann

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:37 pm

Here's something I just drew...but looking back..I think I subconsiously drew the first pic I did of Astro-Man again....

dann

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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:39 pm

Dude, that is freaking amazing!
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:42 pm

As promised, here are my concept sketches of Talib and Kalthar. I think it is appropriate that such villainy be born on Friday the 13th. Both of these images are to be considered public domain, and you may use them as you wish.

With Kalthar, I tried to come up with a unique and original design, which still payed some homage to great villains of the cosmos such as Zod, Sinestro, Thanos and Darkseid. I think there is a little DNA from all of those characters in this design. I also wanted the design to be linked to Astro-Man himself and have some connection to the planet Viro. That isn't a V on Kathar's chest, because it would be silly if aliens used the English alphabet. It happens to be the emblem of the Viroan Empire, showing his patriotic pride, much like a very angry captain america. Kalthar knows that the A symbol on Astro-Man's chest is intended to mock that which the Viroans hold most sacred. Meanwhile Talib wields his Astro-Wave Disruptor which can cause high concentrations of Astro-Waves to go haywire with painful effects for those closest to them.



I've also colored Phantom's best version of Astro-Man for inclusion on PDSH Wiki and I will do the same with Dann's latest masterpiece if we have permission to use it.



Finally, I really liked the logo that Mike has been using on his Astro-Man art, so I tried to clean it up and make it a little more official looking. This image may also be considered public domain if it's ok with Mike.



Last edited by argosail on Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:58 pm

I'm good with it. If you want to clean up the Outworlder logo that can be PD as well.
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dann

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:40 pm

Go ahead and use the pic Argosail....love to see it colored!

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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:52 pm

Here is an image I've done of Astro-Man which can be considered public domain.



Here is a colored version of Dann's drawing which he has kindly given us permission to use on Public Domain Superhero's Wiki.

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:04 am

Does anyone have opinions on my concept art for the villains? Are they anything like how you imagined them or was I way off? If anyone else has a sketch, feel free to share.

I think Astro-Man is pretty much ready to be presented. Here are my ideas for filling in the last little gaps in the Astro-Man story. Let me know if you have additional ideas or modifications. We can update Astro-Man's profile at any time.

-----------------

Personality: Steve was raised with a strong since of duty to helping mankind, and he has a very strong appreciation for the wonders of the universe. He often looks up at the stars when he is under stress, and even during the day, he tends to be lost in his dreams of distant galaxies and black holes. He is often considered something of a space cadet. As a scientist and as a superhero who has seen many strange things, he is not quick to dismiss even the craziest notions, and therefore sarcasm and irony are sometimes lost on him. He sometimes finds it hard to tell when someone is kidding. That isn't to say he doesn't have a sense of humor, but strangely, his astrophysics jokes don't seem to be as popular with others.

-----------------

The Girlfriend: Dr. Sharon Santiago is a veterinarian and environmentalist who has dedicated her life to the preservation of all of earth's lifeforms. She adores Astro-Man for helping to protect not only life on earth, but life on other planets as well. However, her relationship with Steve Hiromatsu is a little colder. They went to school together, but she does not understand his obsession with the cold and desolate reaches of space, when true beauty can be found in the delicate lifeforms of the earth. Where Steve is calculating and scientific, Sharon is spiritual and passionate. Only as Astro-Man does Steve seem comfortable demonstrating his own passion for Sharon.

-----------------

I'm going to try posting this guy on PDSH Wiki, because I think it's overdue. Let me know if you have more ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:52 pm

I just visited the Public Domain Super Heroes Wiki and saw that Astro-Man was posted. Woo-Hoo! Its official. Nice job on the coloring of my rough sketch, like I said it was a crude sketch but at least it was NOT a trace which I never do. Maybe I can come up with something better sometime soon.

I like the design for Kalthar. Oddly I like the design for his head for some reason. Rather detailed bio about Astro-Man, wasn't expecting quite so much about him, but he's posted and available for all the world to see.

Maybe one day I can create a "masterpiece" work of art for this site. I will eventually do something with Astro-Man and Kalthar perhaps but it may be awhile before I can post.

Thanks.
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argosail

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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:38 pm

Phantom, if I did one of your "rough sketches" I would consider it the finest masterpiece I ever drew.

I'm glad you like the design of Kalthar. I could hear the crickets after I posted it, so I was beginning to think that you guys felt like I was smoking something when I came up with those designs. I like his head too. I wanted him to be a really unique looking and memorable villain. The kind of guy that would make it clear on the cover of a comic, that your hero is in big trouble.

I did write a rather extensive bio, but writing is my thing. It's what I do professionally.
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PostSubject: Some thoughts on Astro-Man   Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:23 am

[Fair warning: this is a very long post.]

To me, Astro-Man has potential but he’s still missing something that crosses the boundary between generic and iconic. Right now his origin is very similar to Invincible and the Kree Captain Marvel. He needs something make him stand out a bit more, although I do like the legacy hero angle. I also really like the name. (I independently came up with it for a different character, the survivor of a space shuttle which collided with an alien probe, who merged with the remains of that probe and was teleported to another galaxy and who has to find his way back home.)

If he’s a proper Superman analogue he needs more of a mythos, like the Silver and Bronze Age Superman had. There should be an Astro-Girl—maybe a descendent of his from the future who wants to be a historian, who traveled back in time but found herself stranded here permanently, and whose memories of the future are confused. He has an army of Astrobots who can take his place as both Steve and Astro-Man, but he’s still working the kinks out in the AIs. (The few times he’s used Astrobots to cover for him as Steve has helped contribute to his “space cadet” reputation.) There’s a city of Viran dissidents in a pocket dimension who Astro-Man can’t stay with for too long because they are radiating so much astro-force that it’s fatal to humans, something that could happen to Astro-Man himself if he stays there too long. It would also be a danger for him if he’s channeling too much astro-force at once, assuming he doesn’t just blow up himself and the planet.

In the Seventh Alkteran sector of the omniverse, Virans are a part of the reproductive system of universes. Throughout their lives the astro-force grows more and more powerful until they must leave the universe and go to the Shadow World. Whenever a Viran dies, a small core of his or her astro-force remains, and the Star Reaper arrives to collect that core for a new world. When the universe dies the spirits of all the Virans that have ever been jumpstart the energy to create new universes and ultimately become their stars. That is why certain archetypes and historical elements recur across different worlds, because human consciousness is shaped by the dreams of stars. Virans can also communicate with the souls of the stars. The spirit of the sun is a woman, ancient and wise, but prone to anger. She and Astro-Man are in love.

Perhaps the greatest of Astro-Man’s enemies is Nemesis, the Anti-Sun, who destroyed the civilization of the dinosaurs, whose last survivor is the warrior Garkhat. Once Nemesis was a heroic figure, the husband of the Viran who became the sun, but turned to evil because of some impressively tragic thing I haven’t thought of yet and has since then been trying to destroy all life in the universe. It was he who influenced the Virans to take a course of conquest and evil.

I’m not sure whether I like the name Talib, which seems a little on the stereotypical side to me, suggesting the Taliban and all. Although “Talib” means “student.” I see him as being more Maggin!Luthor than Byrne!Luthor, someone who could have been a hero under different circumstances. Maybe he was an immigrant from Afghanistan who had to deal with the oppressive and brutal regime he grew up under. He also had to face prejudice and hostility in America. Talib’s was a brilliant mind that grew up in a hostile environment, and so developed an instinctive distrust of everyone other than himself, exacerbated by his tendency to be socially withdrawn and his difficulty communicating his ideas with others because his mind is on a whole different plane from everyone else. Steve is one of the few people who can related to him. His name could be a pseudonym, chosen to defy and mock the Taliban… much like Astro-Man’s symbol in relation to the Viran Empire. But I don’t want him to be too topical in case people will still be writing about him in future decades, though that may be a bit of a hubristic possibility to entertain.

As to Kalthar, I like the design very much on the whole, but there’s one little problem: his head looks kind of like a penis. Maybe if his skin were a different color that wouldn’t be so obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:34 am

@Argosail: First thanks for your kind words.

Please don't think I am being nitpicky. I don't know what you've published nor anything else of that nature but please note I am saying to me personally, Astro-Man's bio just seems a bit too long for my own tastes. Not being too critical, I am just coming at this from the angle of someone who may see Astro-Man for the first time.

I think they may possibly be a bit put off by the length of his back story and forget he's actually open source. That's just my opinion. Hope my constructive criticism doesn't offend. Overall I like a lot of what has been written.

@KnightRandom: OK, well, you've illustrated a bit of my point I was making. You are making some observations about Astro-Man as well regarding his origin and bio, but the fact remains he's open source, so you can do whatever you want regarding his description should you decide to use him for something.

I like bits and pieces of Astro-Man's story and if I did use him, would change a few minor things to give my own "spin" on him. That is something you can also do.

Regarding Kalthor, I guess his head does have a penile appearance. I really didn't see that at first, but OK, its there, but I know that wasn't Argosail's intention by any means. When I see Kalthor, I see an alien character! I still like the design.

I am going to submit a few things later this week, one or two involving Astro-Man, possibly Kalthor.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:28 am

I actually appreaciate the fact that the bio is fairly long and in-depth, since it gives creators more to work with, especially in the area of personality. It helps him feel more like a "real" comic-book superhero rather than a pastiche of one. Of course, many superheroes that have been around for a while have wlidly divergent personalities across their different incarnations. Is the Batman of the weird sci-fi era of the early 60s the same character as the post-Frank Miller Batman? Could you sum up Superman's or Batman's personality in one paragraph? Having a personality that can be pinned down like that makes him feel more like a Marvel than a DC character, somehow. Still, there's a range of different approaches you can take on that bio. You could focus on him as a character who embodies the joy of heroism, like Maggin's Superman, or emphasize his alienation more, like Jack Kirby did in Forever People (or the story he pitched which sadly never got to do, which would have had Superman traveling through the galaxy trying to understand his place in the universe).

I agree that having the possibility for different takes on the character is one of the things that makes these characters so potentially fun. My own inclination would be to go in a more "cosmic" direction with Astro-Man, infused with some of the bizarre humor and melancholoy of the Silver Age Superman, since these are things I often miss in today's superhero comics. But of course writing a more "normal" version of the character and ignoring all the bizarre mythos elements I posited would be perfectly fine too. I tend to like superheroes with a lot of history, but other people would appreciate getting away from the baggage of Big Two-style continuity. The great thing about working with an open-source character is that you can ignore things like that without having to resort to retcons which will just be undone as soon as another writer takes over.

Re Kalthar: I'm aware that wasn't Argosail's intention in desgining the character, but I wanted to point it out because that's the first thing many comics fans would probably think of when they saw him. We're a fairly dirty-minded bunch. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:07 am

Good job on the Wiki entry. I made a couple of tweaks to bring it more in line with the other Wiki entries, hope you don't mind. The villains look awesome. Anxiously awaiting the Astro-Man / Outworlder crossover. Yours and mine. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:33 pm

Thanks Mike. I don't know if it is just my slow, outdated dial-upcomputer or what, but I seem to have problems starting pages on the wiki. I just can't figure out how to format them correctly. It took hours for me to get the pictures uploaded. I don't know why it's so difficult for me, but I appreciate you and Crimson helping out with getting it formatted correctly. I'll probably add Kalthar and Talib this weekend when I have more time to fiddle with it. The Astro-Man page looks good though.

KnightRandom, I totally agree with you on almost every points except, respectfully the penis-head thing. Haha...okay, he is a dickhead, but it wasn't my intention to be literal with that. It was just an attempt to give him some distinct features. I did try him in other colors, but green, blue, purple...none of it really looked right to me. Maybe a light purple or gray could work, but I was trying to contrast from his suit, so I went with Sinestro skin. I liked the homage. I don't know, I think he looks okay. If that's what your penis looks like, I feel sorry for you.

But I really like your points about the importance of a character having some history to work with. Without a defined history and personality, Astro-Man would just be another guy in a cape that can fly and lift cars. And if that's all a creator wants, they need not even read the bio. They are free to make up an entirely different story, or make him completely generic if they wish. But I think it's important to have something to work with. I mean, look at the way you started riffing on ideas for Astro. That is how a legend gets made. That is how a character starts to become Epic, instead of just another name in the crowd. There are no shortage of stories behind characters like Hercules, Robin Hood, King Aurthur, and of course, the Superman himself. Astro doesn't benefit from generations of story telling like those others. He is only a month or two old, so, I think it takes a little creative effort to get him up to speed. Somebody has to put that effort in, or he'll just float around. The more you add, the more it snowballs. Personally, I'd be happy to incorporate some of your new ideas into the Astro-Man profile, if that's okay with you and no objectionable to his other creators. I think you have some great ideas.

Would you like to do a concept sketch of Nemesis? Or Phantom...you want to take a crack at it?

I have been thinking about making an Astro-Girl, but I was trying to take it easy on the supporting characters.

I like your ideas for Talib. After doing the drawing, I have feared that he would be perceived as a stereo-typical middle eastern villain. I didn't even make the connection to "Taliban." The name was suggested because it meant "knowledge seeker" and we wanted Talib (full name is Hassan Al-Talib) to be a very Luthor-like villain who seeks scientific glory, at the expense of common ethics and humility.
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PostSubject: Re: Open source Super archetype   Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:07 am

For me, the supporting cast is a lot of what makes Superman interesting. That's why I'm intensely enjoying the current Action Comics featuring Lex Luthor and (starting in a month) Jimmy Olsen. I wouldn't mind at all if you incorporated some of that stuff, I kind of wrote it with that aim in mind. (I'm also trying to think of some way to give him a superpowered dog like Krypto--named Sirius, one assumes.) I was working toward giving Astro-Man a fuller and more complex storytelling engine. John Seavy, who coined the term, defines it thusly:

Quote :
When creating an open-ended series, you include a variety of different elements that act to help the writer in generating ideas for stories; each of these elements can be seen as a component in a "storytelling engine." This is different, I think, from relying on intuitive creativity--the "hand of the muse," as it were--in order to generate a setting that can sustain a large number of different stories, you do have to think with a certain technical air. (This is not to say that all writers have sat down and thought in terms of a storytelling engine, but then again, that's part of the point; sometimes, writers have written a good story, singular, without necessarily thinking about what it did to their storytelling engine, and have found themselves stuck in an awkward position somewhere.)
So what elements make up a storytelling engine? The basic concept of the series, for starters; Doctor Who, to use a series we won't be looking at later on, has as its concept "a mysterious stranger has a time and space machine." Then from there, you layer on the main character, with his motivations and backstory ("an endlessly curious not-quite-human trickster, on the run from his own people who see helping people as a crime"), the supporting cast ("a young woman with more curiosity and guts than common sense"), the setting ("the inside of the time machine," "modern-day London," "a variety of alien planets," "various Earth historical locales"), the antagonists ("a variety of evil aliens who seek to enslave or destroy people"), and the tone ("light-hearted adventure, with occasional forays into horror.") Each of these, ideally, does something to help the writer come up with a story or move it along, and each of them could be changed in ways that help or hinder the writer. (For example, if the Doctor was "a heavy reader with no interests beyond enlarging his vast library," the series would probably have to work much harder to get him involved in events.)

His column on the storytelling engine of the Silver Age Superman is also very much worth reading. That storytelling engine was a part of what makes the Silver Age Superman so fun and compelling, and in spite of the involvement of a number of talented creators the reboot suffered from never coming up with a new one that was quite so good. One of the good things about Astro-Man, as opposed to other open-source characters, is that he already comes with several important parts of his storytelling engine. He has a clearly-defined purpose and antagonists, and the profile I wrote for Dark Ronin shows how his family history can be used to generate further stories. I tried to come up with some other components of that engine that people can use or discard as they see fit.

By contrast, Jenny Everywhere, who has a fascinating central concept and a strong personality, has always suffered from not having much of a storytelling engine. She doesn't completely lack one--as John Seavy says of Superman, the character herself is a good story-generator. She's someone who's always seeking out adventure. But because she was designed as a character who could be inserted into any context, she has no context of her own to be a part of. (And the template for her archenemy is deliberately a cipher, although I have my own ideas for what to do with Jenny Nowhere.) To quote the movie "Naked," she has an infinite number of places to go. The problem is where to stay.
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